Jeremy+&+Francesco

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18-2-09 Chapter 1-5

Francesco:I'm surprised at how Dill and Jem excluded Scout from all that they did. Last summer they were such good friends. What changed? Could things have changes that quickly? From the moment Dill arrived, we saw how rudely both of the boys were treating Scout. It was noticible that it was because not only was Scout the youngest but it was also because she was girl. It was incredibly sexist. But perhaps they didn't know any better?  Jeremy:Well actually, I think that they didn't really exclude Scout, but they made her do things she didn't want to such as in chapter 4. By saying that she was afraid to play, she wanted to belong with them so she was forced to play. What I'm a little curious about is about the tree hole. I think that maybe Boo is trying to contact the outside world assuming he put the things there. To now, the book as been sort of on that intro line in the diagram. In 6-7-8, I think that maybe something will happen that will start that upward curve that will do with Boo or the hole.

Francesco:I wonder if there is any sort of meaning to the items in the tree hole. If those pennies really are as old as Jem says and if they bring good luck, why would anyone want to put them where anybody can grab them? If Boo Radley was the one who did, maybe it was a desperate attempt to draw someone closer, for a pure reason like making friends, or maybe it was a reason that is more malevolent...There is al ways the question of if it was actually Boo Radley who left those things for people. Maybe it was the opposite and someone was leaving things for Boo Radley. Jeremy: A great point. I wonder why people would leave stuff for Boo Radley though. It seems like the only people with any interest is Jem and Scout themselves. Another thing I found interesting about the book, is that it is in the old time. Jem is only a year younger than I am, yet he seems to be a lot more superstitious and scared at the littlest of things. Do you think that most kids are really that way even now, or is it technology and science that has made us less afraid of things. Although this may seem like a good thing, technology has also really degraded our imagination. In the old time, people played all types of acting and creative games. Today, we have sports and video games, none which come from pure imagination.

Jeremy & Francesco, this is Ms. Clark -- I'm really impressed with your conversation so far. The gender theme plays an important role in the book, I think, and you're right to notice it. See where that goes as you continue reading. I'm also heartened that you notice the difference between Jem and you -- you might be onto something with the technology/science theory. Keep up the good work, you two!

24-2-09 Chapter 6-10

Jeremy: I think the main themes of chapter 9-10 are character classification. Sexism and Racism are probably the biggest parts of the classification. I say this, because Scout is humiliated for being a tom boy but she also does something wrong when she called Tom a N or you know what. This is sort of like today, since Scout was so used to saying it. Its a demeaning word, but yet the school kids use it without thinking second thoughts. Even today, we call people a bunch of stuff, especially in our teenage age that we just don't think about, but really, it is really demeaning to some people. I like how Scout changed almost instantly though; it showed a lot of her character that always wanted to please Atticus. Another point in those chapters refelcted on Scout's attitude toward Atticus. She seems like she always wants to make Atticus think she is good. For example, when Uncle Jack hears the real story form Scout, she tells him not to tell Atticus since it broke her pledge not to fight. I think it takes character to be this stubborn. This also relates though on the other hand to the way that Atticus is a good father. He has the most feelings and the wisest decisions of any of the characters in the story so far.

Francesco: Atticus is Scout's rolemodel. In her eyes, and in Jem's too, Atticus can do no wrong. They follow him faithfully through bad times and when Atticus was being teased by neighborhood boys such as Francis and Cecil. This relationship was strengthened when they saw they saw Atticus was a "deadshot" and could actually do things other than sit in the house and read the newspaper. Jem espiecially saw more in Atticus because of the dog incident but, I think it wasn't necessary for them to see that. In times to come they will see Atticus hold out against a lot of bad things from their friends and family and for that bravery, I think Scout and Jem will appreciate Atticus so much. But their relationship will definitely be tested in the upcoming summer and I do have to wonder if that loyalty will last. I believe in the kids but people can only survive so much. By being the kids of a man defending a black man, the mobs of people will have a volley of insults and abuse coming their way to.

Jeremy: I think that Atticus has a lot of courage and character. He believes in everyone no matter who they are, even if they are evil or mean. He is a symbol in the story of good. The battle going on is sort of the theme of racism. The evil is probably everybody else. Althought the evil side seems like the only path at times, I think like you said, that Scout will almost follow this but she will have to fight back. Jem, I'm not so sure he has the stubborness. He also is a teen now which makes him a lot more challenging and whatever adjective means that he seeks out before he thinks. The Ewells will be the evil I think. And Boo will probably be a neutral character that ends up a help to Atticus. That's my hypothesis for what will happen.

Francesco: It's interesting what you said about the evil being everybody else. Is that really true? These people have simply grown up on the idea that black people are less than them and now Atticus is bringing in the idea that they have the same rights as everyone else. What they are doing is wrong, of course, not treating them as equals but the question is, can they be blamed for their actions? Do they know any better? This is a topic we also talked about in Lord of the Flies. Even if they don't know anything other than treating black people as less than them, making a scapegoat out of a probably honest man is not right, no matter who you are.

Jeremy: This is just like my free-write. I wrote how major and minor were things that you probably weren't born thinking that major was happy and minor was sad. I said that you probably adapted to it since it was so universally used. People at that time were like that thinking that Blacks were just trash, and they can't help it, since again, it was universally used. Could you now instantly think that minor was happy? No. It is physically impossible and probably scientifically impossible too. This is because it is not just a way we think, but it is engraved in our heads. How many years did it take for us to not feel this way??? Many. It would take probably a millenia to change the minor/major thing or even more, since people in the middle ages and egyptians a thousand years ago had the same feeling. On a bigger scale, I think that Racism and People Classification is impossible to remove. It keeps coming back no matter what we do in different forms like a virus. It definetely has already killed more people than most or any virus has. Human nature is the theme of this conversation, and it is something that we can never avoid no matter what. This is our greatest advantage and our greatest flaw. To be able to feel and adapt.

3-3-09 Chapter 11-17

Jeremy: In these chapters, we see many different character changes. First, Aunt Alex comes, and instructs Atticus to make Scout become more lady like. Then, Jem fights with Scout for not listening. I think that especially in Jem, we see many changes. He used to be like Dill, but now, it seems as if he has taken to being more like Aunt Alex, not even like Atticus. Atticus also is relying more on Jem to take care of Scout. Alex seems like she has only one purpose, to change Scout. Atticus thinks that he can control Jem since he is more mature, but Jem, is always rebellious and stands his ground. For example, he won't take Scout away when the mob comes. It was a good move too. Atticus may be wise in many ways, but he is not at all a risk taker. As a lawyer, you can't take risks, because you can lose the case just from one mistake. Jem has a different personality in that he will follow along with someone but will also take many risks. When Scout in chapter 15 saves Atticus, I thought it was really strange how it was Cunningham out of all the people who led the mob. I mean, Atticus basically bailed him out. I wonder too about Tom Robinson. We don't know enough about his personality to come to any conclusions that he might be guilty or not. This is obviously on purpose by Harper Lee, so it is sort of a mystery. One thing I found interesting was that when Atticus interogatted Bob Ewell, he was really into every random thing and trying to repeat everything he said. Its funny because I can relate that to me when I did the debate for Social Studies. I was embarrassed though because I asked so many of the random questions but I realize now that you can use it to your advantage. I think what will bring Bob Ewell to his downfall in the trail is his arrogance. He is compared to a rooster, and all that he really has is a dump shack. If I was argueing with this person in real life, I would get him for that, intimidate him. Eventually, that personality will let on a mistake but in this story, I am 100% sure that this is not going to go straightforward. What do you think will happen to the trial next??

Francesco: I would like to touch on character changes a little more. We some of the people in the book evolve a lot while others stay more or less the same. As you said, Jem is going through a change that i feel is inspired by Atticus. He has always looked up to Atticus but before now he hasn't made the attampt to become more of a role model and become more like Atticus. But he is maturing and becoming his own man and we see Scout, who hasn't changed other than getting a bit older, becoming angry at the brother she doesnt feel she knows anymore. I wonder if this change is for the better. We dont really know Jem very well only as a playful, tricky kid. So is this change for the better? Atticus seems proud of Jem, Scout seems annoyed. I personally liked the old Jem and this change feels sudden and forced upon this relatively young kid. But Atticus's case has made Jem take responsibility and i feel it is sad to see Jem forced to grow up.

3-11-09 Chapter 18-27

Jeremy: Again, we see some themes in the book. We see the theme of a scapegoat, when Tutti and Frutti blame the Syrians in chapter 27. We see the theme of innocence when Atticus tells Jem that Tom would have been free if the Jury was made out of kids in Chapter 20-23. I think that if it was women in the jury, it would also have an effect (not the ministry ones). Women tend to be more sensitive since they too are sometimes discriminated by men. Oh what do you know, that is the sexism theme again. We of course see the character change theme too when people become almost pitiful that Atticus is Scout and Jem's father, and when Scout and Jem are growing up. I think that these many themes weaved together is what makes this book so thick in content. Themes are us, our human nature. The point of themes is for us to relate to ourselves. As in our discussion, we decided that this was being written to the prejudice ones. I think that every book must have a point they are trying to say and a specific audience regardless of the genre. We also in these chapters get a lot of irony especially when Grace during chapter 27 talks about prejudice as if she didn't have any of it and when they talk about Hitler. This book was written by one person, so I really don't think that people really would think the way that she presented it. I mean, one person speaking for I don't know, like 100 different character personalities seems like it would have some flaws. The only way she would be totally accurate is if she were god. Its like trying to measure something exactly to the infinite place. Impossible.

Francesco: I would like to talk about the scapegoating you mentioned as well as the hippocriticism in these chapters. We see, during Aunt Alexandria's meeting with the ladies, Miss Merriweather talking bad about Atticus and saying all his work during Tom's case didn't amount to anything good. She's saying this while she is eating the food from his house as well. And later on, Scout notices Miss Gates talking all about how what Hitler is doing is bad but the town did the same sort of persecuting, only on a smaller scale. This sort of human flaw appears often and it made me wonder if we do this sort of thing in our lives as well. Harper Lee gives us a good view of the kind of lives the characters live and we easily see their problems and we scold them for it. But it is probably hard to notice it in real life and it is that sort of realism that makes this book so incredible. Humans are social creatures and we always try fit in with the people around us. Miss Gates was going along the patriotism that dominated the US at the time but couldn't notice the terrible things that were happening in her own town. And Miss Merriweather couldn't think for herself and only went with what the rest of the town was saying about Tom and all black people in general. If you think about it can you blame them for wanting to fit in? If thinking independently like Atticus caused you to be excluded, why would anybody do that?

3-13-09 Chapter 28-End

Jeremy: As we discussed in class, we focused quite a lot on the theme of innocence. Again, I think that it also ties into the theme we were talking about of being befitted or classified with some story, that you can't really remove. Although Boo, unlike Tom, was white, he wasn't born with being thought as trash, but as he grew, he definitely was given that role as the scapegoat not valued person. Once people are given a role or reputation, it is almost impossible to change it. The difference between Tom and Boo is that Boo was not given that role. Boo started out with a blank slate, which people blackened so he had to hide away. Tom in my opinion was worse off. As a black person, I don't want to say he was given the reputation as trash from his ancestors, but he was sort of born with that like any other DNA trait. His slate was already blackened (no pun intended) before he was born. An already blackened slate is worse than one that you grow up and blacken. Its like starting with a paper with already scribbles all over it, and trying to do your homework. Where as doing your own homework from a blank paper, you can erase mistakes if you want to really bad.

Francesco: I kind of have to wonder if Boo Radley deserved his place that he had in society. He seemed like a good person when Scout meet him, very shy and almost childish. But he was able to kill Mr. Ewell and stab his father so his personality in rather mysterious. We weren't shown much of Boo and what we saw was nothing more than a scared man who felt awkward and afraid out of the comfort of his own home. But I sense there is darker side to him, perhaps a side that deserves his label? We hear of his rowdy antics as a kid and how that was what set it all off but to keep him trapped away from society was probably what caused the following incidents. I see Boo Radley's story as the literal example of people putting a person somewhere in society and keeping them there even if they want a different place. The saddest part is, I feel, that Boo Radley became so accustomed to his spot that he could hardly stand being out of it. Is that what happens to people in society too? Do they get so used to how other people think of them that they stay that way forever?

Jeremy: I think that it is a suspension of disbelief that he would stay in his house for that long. If I were Boo, I would have been long gone from that town. I think that the easiest way to erase that reputation or label is to run away and start a new life. Isn't that just like clearing a playing board. I think that was you said, Boo has a darker side of him, but I don't blame him. Imagine being in his shoes. Boo is old but his is sort of ignorant of what happens outside. What I don't get, like I said, is why not find out??? It would have been better if they gave a reason like some sort of explanation even though it is supposed to be a sod. I really don't think the book is trying to say that he wanted to stay inside. That contradicts human nature. Impossible!!!